So Killer is saying he got some kinda US deal with Odes and is the only one getting the new updated 800 Dominators. Link is for Pics.
If what he says holds any truth I do not know at this time.
I saw that too. I have a feeing they will be selling this specific one because Odes USA is still planning on selling the regular version from my understanding. It does look like they changed the internal plastics, which would be great. I think they are giving them exclusive rights to this particular configuration. Who knows, but maybe there will be a better stock of parts now.
just my $.02 but why would you give exclusive rights to someone who is just a drop shipper? i know they pry move a lot of units but they are not a main stream distributor. they say a lot of things about products but how much is really true? the one example that sticks out in my head first is the whole video on "hyosung vs hisun" hyosung doesn't even build utv's....
I hear u Adam.
Don't trust anyone with KMS as a short version of their name.
O wait never mind. )
They really need something to stand out. The hunter edition they have is now $3,000.00 off their regular price. Things must be slow for them. Mess enough people around and they will start to screem loud enough for everyone to hear.
From looking at the pics it looks like the main differences from the original model and this new one are:
Different Top with lights
Better interior plastics
electric dump bed
26" tires and different wheels
Odes stitched seats
The rear cage bracing is slightly different as well. I think that is most of it from what I can tell by looking at the pics.
here is what has happened. owner Mike Smith of Killer Motorsports started a company called SC-Worldwide which has the exclusive right to the ODES 800. there are a few companies with machines left but they will not be receiving any new ones unless they come from SC-worldwide.
i have the dealer packet with all the info which is basically what you seen on the site www.odesutvs.com
mike smith is claiming he is going to run it the good american way but from his problems with killer motorsports and customers complaints i find it is going to be hard to believe. dont get me wrong, i want to get my hands on some but i dont want to be stuck not getting parts from them or labor reimbursement as they claim. i hope he can prove a lot of people wrong because with having the exclusive dealer rights he has a lot of product to move.
you can pretty much read the rest but if you have questions please ask.
Thanks for the update.
Anybody have one of these units pre-ordered? Should be coming in to the warehouse later this month (november) according to Tim. I'm a little hesitant to jump on the boat before there is any feedback. Apparantly the pistons/belt/floorboards/misc. other parts are sourced from Japan/Taiwan to build a higher quality machine. Sounds like a good idea to me!
sounds like a good idea but i will believe it when i see it. i'm not trying to be skeptical here people but at this point i am. i have not pre-ordered anything at this point either. Not sure what i am going to do yet....i will wait until december most likely and then order one.
I've been talking to Tim about going to Ca for a Demo. It's only a day trip back and forth for me. He hasn't told me when they will have a demo unit.
The Info I received yesterday was the earliest they will arrive is 11/20 if they have no troubles with shipping. Two containers at a time every 10 days.
Actually I was depending on you to belly up and lead the way!
I am just not sure yet!
Those sure look like the same WANDA 26" tires that are on our Supermach machines now.
Didn't he say no one else uses them?
You know, I was laughing through most of that video. I bought my Odes back in May, long before Killer had anything to do with these and he is saying "he" specifically designed the machine certain ways for him. The main differences between his and mine is the Top is now plastic instead of Fiberglass and has lights, the one piece windshield, electric dump, rear winch, 26" tires and interior plastics are molded. Everything else is the same. The shocks look no different than mine and they are too stiff on the front. The seats are adjustable and have always been. The tranny IS finnicky and does need to be adjusted properly to go into gear. The tranny is nothing like a car. The engine and tranny are Rotax clones. It is a good tranny but is very picky on how it is adjusted. Now don't get me wrong, I hope this machine catches on because I have one! It is a nice machine and it looks like some of the downfalls I see are being attended to. Parts is still a main concern for me, but luckily I have not had to replace anything yet. I just wish I got to ride it more this summer. :^/
ya, its amazing what people will claim "they" did. see most people dont own the machine and wouldn't know if what he is saying is true or not. but come on now, he's a racer and he tuned that suspension!
Tim called me and thought I should respond to some of these posts. I'll response to one thread at a time starting from the first post.
Mike Smith, myself, owner of SC-Worldwide got the exclusive for the USA for ANY ODES UTVS (200cc+) for the USA under the new company ODES UTVS. Killer Motorsports is a retail dealership I also own but do not manage that is located in Fort Worth, TX. The claim is accurate.
The old ODES utvs are gone, only the new redesigned 800 will be brought it. No one will have access to the ODES UTVs (200cc and higher) from Oct 2011 and on. Only ODES UTVS will have access to them, there will be no other importers from Oct 2011 forward.
Killer Motorsports has 2 separate warehouses in DFW, TX. totaling 20,000 sqft, housed with over 2 million in powersports products. Killer Motorsports also has their own track for product testing at the Mastercraft Lake in Fort Worth, TX. Nearly 70% of Killer Motorsports business is local business. Killer Motorsports is the largest dealership of Chinese products in Texas. To say Killer Motorsports is "just a drop shipper" is false.
Hyosung is a manufacture of UTVS that are designed in Korea and assembled in China. The motors are also made in Korea as well.
The hunters edition package is something I put together for Killer Motorsports that has most of the upgrades hunters were asking for while ordering anyway. The unit is not 3k off, thats the MSRP price, the MSRP price is always alot higher than the sales price, visit any car dealership.
I am unsure as to the comment about Killer Motorsports problems or customer complaints. Let me be transparent here. In the last 12 months Killer has added a little over 30,000 new customers and has only 58 bbb complaints total for 36 months. Killer imports all their own parts to their Fort Worth location and has an in-house staff that is solely dedicated to warranty and service. Killer also provides a full service department for local customers as well. PowersportsMax BBB complaint is over 200, Scootersdepot is around 180. Not sure how our reputation is so bad. Killer puts on charity events constantly, sponsors the AMA, Rider Down, etc. Guess I'll just stop here.
Units are currently in production. I just got back in from the factory last week and everything is running smoothly. Tim is correct, we are expecting the units to be here at end of Nov if not sooner. We are hoping to have the first set of containers loaded up in 7 days, then about 14 days to ship and clear customs. Please refer to the site for all the upgrades and features,
We are going to assemble 2 units immediately and have one for demo for dealers and send the other one to Colorado for a video/demo shoot in the mountains. In January we will be sending the sales guys on a trip with 2 utvs accross the USA and Canada to demo the products for dealers. We have not decided on a route yet for that but will contact dealers about this before they take off.
Parts will be a big thing. Dealers will be able to order online and their dealer pricing will show once they are logged in. The first container we are even getting is just parts, over 6,000 of them. Then every 10 containers we import I will have 1 container of just parts hit. This was a HUGE headache for Killer with all importer that they never had any parts in stock, this why Killer imports all their own parts now. This provides better customer service and we are able to help thousands of other customers who can't get parts from their original dealer. I understand the massive importance of parts and will promise ANY dealer that we will have parts IN STOCK for their units. IF we are out of something then I will air it over, no charge. But the first order will have nearly 15 utv worth of parts, so we will be quite stocked up.
Its the 26" Wanda's on the UTV. FYI, Hisun lost the agreement with Wanda from my understanding, this is why it was said, I have yet to confirm, but we will be changing to a meatier tire around Jan that will make this Wanda look like a chump. Hoping to have it in before the indy show.
Its not 2" tread, the video editor should have taken that out. I think its close to 1.5 inches.
Madbare, glad I could make you laugh. However, I wasn't in China for 3 months twiddling my thumbs. We made over 280 changes to this utv from motor internals all the way to packinging changes. FYI, I think everyone can agree these UTVS need a MASSAVE packaging change up. The car transmission was reference to how they shift it and it locks into place, unlike the hisun where you have to wiggle the shifter into gear until it clicks. I know it's not like a car. There are many other changes other than what you listed. Tranny was fixed though, new 1 pc shift drum, new belt, new heavy duty clutch, red lock tight!, rear winch design, plastics are getting a much needed improvement, everything small like different better bolts, better ECU, etc. Feel free to see me at the dealer show or come out to Cali, I'd love to visit with you.
Feel free to ask me if you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them. Thanks.
Last edited by RhinoClones; 11-04-2011 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Only Sponsored Dealers can promote there business.
Well Mike Id first like to say welcome to the forums....
Its always nice to see the other side of the story....
Think only thing that made me and others upset was that ur KMS not to be confused with our KMS, that Killer defiantly sold the hell outa Hisun products and talked them up big time... (Of course u would ur triing to sell them, not have them in your warehouse) Next Killer comes across ODES machine... Over all better machine, sure we can give you that but put them side by side and say I know i sold you guys this machine but its kinda crappy so Im going with this machine (ODES)
Your exact words? No, but what it comes across as yes.... Also so much BS has been thrown around out in this market its hard to see what monkey is doing the throwing... Does Killer have a bad report like BJ?? Hell no!!!! We called him out on his BS and he folded.... We will give everyone a fair chance here but be warned RhinoClones well be the first to call u out.... and we well be here to help anyone out with any issues...
That being said, Mike best of luck with ODES UTVS and look forward to a semi problem free future...
Adam, Rod, and Brent come first,... LOL
Rod prob break it anyway.. :P
FYI Mike... just watched the video again.... I really like what i see.....
Getting this machine to our top Sponsors.. Adam from KellyMotorSports(IA), Brent from 231motorsports(IN), and Rod from elkriverpowersports (MN) and of course John from Affordable SxS would be in ODES UTVs best interest... Theyll give a fair review of the machine... From what former/current ODES owners have been saying is pretty good.... Of course the more we say the name the better the traffic for U Mike...
Guess I'll just respond down each thread again.
The issue with ODES is that they never focused on product improvement, product development, marketing, branding, the works. They made a descent machine but never took it past the first phase of development. I was in an odd place last year because while in China I went to HiSun and tried to get them to go to one importer, show them the flaws in marketing and branding, tried to take that brand to another level so they could be on the same playing field as the big 5. They had their own idea which backfired. From what I have been told from my China employee... HiSun lost their Government financing, are requiring 100% up front on containers, can't import the 800 anymore for legal reasons, and are going through ownership changes. I am unsure to the validity of this claim, but this is what is floating around the China rumor mill, which is more reliable than what I hear in the states. I saw the ODES brand and started to sell it, develop the name a little more, once it going cooking I bought up all the ODES from all the importers and starting selling the crap out of them. That's when I went to the factory and presented the plan. Ears were receptive and they liked the direction and a big deal was struck. Now can the factory honor the terms of the contract? Who knows, I hope so, if not I have a bad ass attorney who will make me rich I suppose, lol. But as far as I go in terms of honoring what I have stated so far to the dealers and the direction I want to go... you can definitely trust that. Anyone who has actually met me or knows me will vouch that I am a very upfront and transparent person. I won't call anyone out in this industry (BJ) and throw dirt around because we all have our flaws, I do as well. If I was perfect I'd still be racing and probably be off the in UK tearing up their Enduro Pros. Sadly enough, that's not the case. Feel free to call me out, just don't be a jerk about it. If I screw up, you'll find that I'll always try and make it right, even if YOU are the one that's wrong. I personally find that a rare thing with alot of people in this industry. Killer gives away nearly 10k a month in free parts to warranty customers who don't deserve a dime, but that's also why Killer only has 58 complaints in the last 36 months with 30k customers added in the last 12 months alone. FYI, that's not just vehicle sales, that's a TON of parts sales. I understand the importance for support and service, not just through parts but through the whole process of the buying process. This is why everything we are doing is mostly online and automated. Even the claims process. You file your claim online, our guys get it, approve or deny quickly and done. Parts will be sent asap free of charge, labor will instantly be credited to your account, done. I don't want to waste time calling people out, I want to make the situation right so we can all build this brand together. If I make the dealers ecstatic, they will make their buyers even more ecstatic and we all win. Most of the Chinese companies only care about making their dollar and keeping it in their pocket and that's why all of us American dealers dislike doing business with Chinese owned companies. We are ALWAYS the ones that get screwed in the end. If you guys need any help with anything, even if its prior units that we didn't sell you, we can still get you the parts and I can help get you stuff from the factory. I speak with the factory almost daily and the owner at least once a week for progress updates, I will support our dealers any way I can. If you guys ever have questions about people in this industry in terms of importers, direct sourcing, or other products you want to get or develop, let me know.
As far as the demo stuff goes. We'll be taking off hopefully first of January from Texas since my rig is located there (I'm in Cali now), and heading up through your areas going all the way up to Canada. We'll definately make a point to stop by your shops regardless if you are already buying or not so all dealers have a chance to check out the new design.
FYI, at end of Jan I'll be heading back to China to finish the design on the 4 seater as well as starting the development on a 400 utv and finishing up the Hunters Editions that will come straight from the factory. We will also be getting in the FULL Cab Hard Enclosures around Mid Jan, Lord Willing and will have the snow plows around end of this Nov. We will also be adding about 5 new accessories so stay tuned for that. let me know if you have any questions.
Mike, welcome to the Forum! Where in Colorado will you be and when? I am in Colorado and would love to hook up if at all possible for a ride. We can ride right from my house so I would certainly extend an offer for you to come here and ride up in some really big country! I am interested in seeing a upgraded unit and I certainly would like to buy some of the upgraded parts for my machine like the internal plastics. I already put a clutch kit and a can-am belt, so that part is all good. I would be interested to see the tranny change. I was able to alleviate most of the shifting problems, but it might be worth upgrading that. Like I said before, overall it is a good machine, and am glad to see you pushing the unit and making upgrades. Definitely will be interested in seeing some of the new accessories you will have for this unit. What kinds of engine changes are you making? A big suggestion I would have for you is on the exhaust. The way they come they are not USFS certified so they cannot be legally ridden on public lands as is. I had to change my exhaust over to an aftermarket unit that has a USFS rating. Bringing one from the factory would be a huge advantage over any other imported unit. They do check for this and sound levels here in CO. Anyway, feel free to PM me for my contact information if you are interested in stopping by.
Mike let me start off with the latest of your comments...
Working on a good even more affordable 400 would be great....Please make sure it has a low and high range unlike the 400 Hisun...
Chinese and their word..Hmmm just ask Apple about that one..... Lawyers cant touch them... Not apart of the TM act or something like that..... Though sure you will have a safe market in the USA....
" I won't call anyone out in this industry (BJ) and throw dirt around because we all have our flaws, I do as well" Ill take a wild guess to say that most of RC's top 4 here have learned that long ago with selling these Chinese machines.... (far as what i said BJ... I talked to him directly on his cell phone at the track and he said that he was getting in the new 2012 800's and would had sold one to me if i let him... Whats wrong with that?? Well he no longer had the contacts to get them... So cheating people is going to get a 4x10x6 hole of dirt tossed around)
Am I tossing dirt on Mike Smith??? Prob nothing more than I dusting id say,... In-fact I started this thread much like others to let others know whats going on... Some extract more information for me and share here... And others may throw some dirt at your eyes... some would like this to be an 100% open forum but in those cases some ppl take it over board and I have to delete those posts but havent banned any nonspammers yet...
Plus this thread only could benefit your new company...
If you need anything Mike just PM me...
and yes stop and see Steve... One of the forums happy ODES owner....
Hey Steve, yeah we'll be taking a UTV to shoot the videos in Custer County Colorado heading up Billy Humble trail. Are you close to there? It's an amazing trail to ride and has an incredible story. It goes up to around 13,000 feet to an old mine that was owned by Billy Humble back since World War 2. I got the chance to meet him and he lived up there ever since the 80s and died 3 years ago. He has around 6 cabins boarded up by that National Forest Service but you can go see the mine and it's just an amazing journey. If you wanted to come do that with us you would be more than welcome! If not we can come see you after that or before for a demo.
We are working with Moose UTV Products right now on some aftermarket accessories in addition to what we currently get as well as some performance guys to get some stuff out next spring as well. We will have the parts you need like the plastics if you wanted to put that on as well. If you wanted to get the new 1pc shift drum then I could probably send you one, I think I have an extra at the shop I could send you. I can check. Does it just jerk sometimes or miss gear?
On the upgrades and exhaust. The motor internals had a big change, the first one being the 1pc redesigned shift drum, it was 2pc and would just come apart. The belt is from Japan now, the clutch has heavy duty springs on it now. Red lock tight on the internal motor bolts, new heat tempered bolts, we are working on a taller piston that will give the utv more compression. The tranny was beefed up with some thicker gears and alot of the pot metal was changed out to cnc. The exhaust has somewhat had a redesign to thicker exhaust gaskets, the cat converter is standard now, its carb approved, the tip has been changed up but thats about it, I'm not sure if that will pass the USFS though. I would think it would though. The sound level is a little lower I think though. If not I can work with you to develop the changes needed so we can get this done for sure. It would not cost anything to change at the factory directly. We could always develop an insert to kill the db though.
I definitely want to make the 400 the right way. That's way I am waiting to get the 800 2dr done first, then the accessories. Then we'll complete production on the 800 4dr, then we'll move to the hunters packages and finally to the 400. I didn't want to throw a bunch of product out there for it to not go through the proper R&D process that needed to be done. These 800s I would almost put my life on, however, worse case there is a problem, I'll have a retarded amount of parts in stock to fix any issues. But this thing went through 3 months of solid testing and breakdown to get it right. I want to make sure all new units have that same opportunity so there are NO issues when they finally get here. I'll be getting alot of feedback on the new 400 at INDY as well so we make sure we deliver a product that the dealers want instead of just something I think people will like.
The great thing about Trademarks, patents, or more importantly, utility patents, is that with the right attorney we can legally turn around containers at the port. Luckily I have 14 of those suckers pending at the patent office and if ONE UTV comes across the radar, I can get the container rejected at customs clearance. Most people do not know this and just sue the importer. Why do that when I can make one call and get the entire product returned. This is what Rolex did and along with many Jewelry and cloths manufactures did in 2010 and that's why much of that product has disappeared off the market in the USA. And if you are worried about those solo internet drop shippers trying to post ODES products on their site to hurt the brand or whatever, just 1 call to iCann from our Trademark attorney can get their website switched off until the legal dispute is resolved. I learned how to do this years ago when I was protection another product reputation.
If you ever wanted to talk the story of HiSun and all the people who tried to claim fame with HiSun I'd do that in person or over the phone but don't want to do any slamming on this thing. I'll just say that unless you were Chinese, you had NO contacts and NO pull. I was spending 3 million+ with HiSun per year and had NO pull. FYI, the odes 800 is in legal dispute with the CSPC and Govt, I have heard that they have restricted these units from coming into the states from multiple sources. I have been told from even more sources that HiSun has decided to retire the 800. True or not, I'm unsure, I guess we'll know if they start showing up again. However, I am at Lifan alot which is across the street from HiSun and have been told by them the same story, so who knows.
I'm up for having everything out the in open, it keeps me in check and can also put any haters in check as well by me setting the record straight from the horse's mouth.
Mike, I know where about you are talking about, it is near Westcliffe, correct? I am about 2.5 hours north of there near the town of Black Hawk. We can ride from here at the house all the way over to St. Mary's glacier. Lot of miles of trails in-between. Give me a good enough notice when you will come and I will see if I can make the trek down there. I have been down in the area a lot but never riding, so would be great to see a new area.
As far as the shifting goes, I am not sure if you saw my main thread I started on this unit. Unfortunately, the pictures didn't get transferred over and am not sure if they will. I ended up putting a cage extension on the unit and a back seat with 2 five point harnesses. I also talked quite a bit about the shifting issue. I have a Can-am Outlander 800, so I am very familiar with the engine and tranny on the Odes. There were 2 issue I saw with the shifting, first was that the indents on the shift plate are off some causing the unit to not show the correct gear on the display and not stay in high. The way these trannys need to be adjusted is for neutral first. You get that adjusted and the rest should be good, but what I found was the indents were off some for Park and High and I filed them down. The other issue is with the way the shift shaft works. On the can am there the shift shaft is only on one side and the odes, they extended it out both sides. When they did this they did not shim the shaft/drum properly and there is a fair amount of side to side play. I ended up putting a big spring on the shift linkage to take out any side to side movement because what would happen is you would adjust for neutral and depending on how the shaft was sitting it would change your adjustment as it slides from side to side. So you think you would have it and take off and pow, it would slip out of high range. Now with the spring on it, it appears that it is working much better now and all the gears are showing correct on the display. I found this fix right before I had some medical issues, so I do not have much time on this fix to see if it is really working fully. The really only other area of concern is the radiator and cooling system. These engines run hot by design and the can am is no different. I burn the hell out of my legs riding the can am but it had yet to over heat. On the odes I noticed that I have hit the top bars on the gauge, but I am not convinced it is really overheating. I am thinking of putting in an inline temp gauge to monitor the actual temps. The fan does seem to run a lot but so does my can am. Maybe adding a separate temp gauge would be good or recalibrate the bars on the existing one. If you have any insight on what the bars temps are that would be helpful. I also wrapped the entire exhaust to help keep the heat down under the cowling and that made a huge improvement.
I am not sure what it would take to pass USFS, but I don't think it is too difficult. The noise limit here in CO is 96db which this machine meets no problem. I really like the Supertrapp I put on mine and give it a nice growl and still passes noise.
Are you guys going to have access to a ECM programmer at all? These motors have a lot more in them if tuned right and if we had the programmer, we could really have some fun with it.
I ended up going with a dalton clutch kit for the can-am 800. This kit really wakes up this machine. I also replace the secondary spring with an OEM can am one. Now the up shift and back shift are great and the engine braking is working like it is supposed to. I used an OEM can am belt as well. The one that came on it was too big and had way too much deflection and when going down hill it would just free wheel since the belt was just slipping. Now that I have everything working, the tires almost lock up because the belt is actually making the one way sprague clutch work. All the can am tools work on these clutches.
There are also some simple things on the motor you can look at to squeek more HP out if this engine. I have an 07 Outlander which is the first gen and now they have the 800R motor which bumped the HP up a bit. I was able to swap out some items to get most of the HP on my machine. I see that the odes could benefit from these too and would be simple changes for the factory to make. We can take that offline if you want to find out more about it.
There is one thing I would really like to get my hands on and that is a shop manual. The guys here tried and I tried with Odes direct and through the deal I bought from and could not get one. Hopefully you will have access to one.
If you ever want to talk about this stuff over the phone or via email, send me a pm and I will give you my info and I would love to talk about these or any other for that matter. I am a big can am fan and because the odes uses this drivetrain was the main reason I went with this machine. Plus I have most of the can am tools and such for working in the engine and clutches. Even the oil filters are the same.
If you want to see any of my pics, let me know and I post some up again.
Let me start off by introducing myself. Adam Kelley owner Kelley Motorsports. I know you know little about me from talking to Tim but would like to introduce myself as well.
As i told Tim, dont think i'm throwing dirt in your face. I and other dealers on here have conversations about units bought at killer motorsports and have problems getting simple parts. It happens, but lets face the facts. When dealers buy from a "Hisun" distributor we can go to multiple locations to try and get parts. you have a very very large commitment to fulfill and i wish you the best of luck in doing it. we are looking at becoming a dealer with you and would like to talk about bigger opportunities with you as well. I would like you to personally call me if and when you have time as we would love to come out to ca and visit the warehouse and see all the parts and product. obviously this would be in a month or so when you are up and running.
take my comments serious or sarcastically but i can only tell you this much. as you know, it takes 10 people to tell a good thing and only 1 to tell 10 people a bad thing. this is how we (several dealers) were informed about the problems with their units and not getting service.
i myself will be riding the first demo unit we purchase from you and the hope is we will love it. here is a concern we have and i dont thing this can really be answered. Odes UTVS is obviously committed to servicing the customer and stocking parts and paying labor back but how long will it last. you say immediately it will be reimbursed. what happens when you start forking out all this money for items breaking and the chinese aren't reimbursing your cost. will you start picking and choosing what you warranty? repayment will slow up? these are all valid concerns and i'm not saying it will happen but look at how many companies did do it or still do that just keep getting less parts....slower payback...and on and on.
with warranty, will odes provide an extended warranty? i see you only offer 6month parts and labor. why not 1 year? if you will offer extended warranty 6months? 1 year? please pm dealer cost. i guess most of any concerns or questions should be not for public discussion due to pricing and other things.
i really wont have much more to say until i actually see the unit. again, would love to talk about some opportunities with you as well.
I am not sure how Killer has issues getting people parts when we have around 150k in parts in stock at any given time, over 4000 sqft total. I think most customers just exaggerate to make drama rather than get the facts or get help. We don't have a dedicated staff for warranty/service and have that much in parts to NOT help people or sell someone parts. I just don't buy it. Like you said, I understand the importance of keeping customers happy which is why I have provided the resources to Killer to be able to help our customers.
As like Yamaha they have a pricing structure to cover if things happen. They also have financial backing in case situations do arise and they need to go out of pocket. We have a pricing structure and I am the financial backer for the company. Yamaha also puts there product through extensive testing to ensure its not breaking all the time. We did the same thing by spending 3 months overseas to make sure everything was up to par. If you do things correctly you can prepare for any situation. The factory provides a 6 month warranty and so that is what we provide. An extended warranty is not provided at this time. I understand your skepticism since you are used to dealing with the Chinese companies and not someone whose word you can trust. Like I said before, it will have to be earned and we know this. Tim can give you the dealer pricing.
Adam, Jesse, and all other interested RC dealers.
Maybe we should get together offline and come up with a unified list of "dealer" questions to submit to Mike Smith. Do we have a place to do that in the forum yet?
I'm not suggesting to kill this thread but some questions/answers may be best kept private. What do you guys think?
Welcome to the forum, I give you credit for coming on here and representing your product. My name is also Mike and I an one of the newest sponsored dealers here on the RC forum. I am from Team Jar Motorsports in Arizona. I guess my biggest question that can be addressed here is this. If your allowing drop shipping and internet sales, what territory protection will your brick and mortar dealers have? As I'm sure you know, these kind of sales cause havoc for us. Dealers have several problems with this but for me the biggest is almost every potential customer insists you meet or beat the internet pricing. It's an up hill battle from there trying to explain having a showroom and service department costs money etc etc.
Since your asking for feedback I will tell you that when someone talks S@#t about their competition whether "it's true or not" I believe turns most people off. Let your superior product do the talking.
Looking forward to the ODES release. I will certainly be traveling to Cali for the Demo.
I would be very carefull dealing with this guy. He is know for selling ice to an Eskimo. He has played this song and dance with several other products before. Dont fool yourself, he has been the driving force behind KMS and what it has become over the last few years. You have been warned.
Thank you for your warning!
But do you have anything more specific to add?
You are our newest member as of today and your first post is a little bit hurtful. If you have had dealings with KMS or others please let us know. Otherwise is just sounds like sour grapes.
We are interested in what you are saying.
Please feel free to complete your profile page as well.
Again welcome to the forum.
Last edited by Pro-Tech; 11-04-2011 at 07:35 AM.
I currently have a customer that has been waiting for a stator for a 500 hyosung for over a month. It was shipped from killer , and he bought the extended warranty.(six months total) Now I have a unit in my shop that needs parts , and everytime he calls killer he gets a different due date. Now hopefully according to them we will get the stator at the end of NOV. The stator is a suzuki part , but why would the customer want to spend $ 225 for a part that is under warranty. I'm not going to post a page article to state my issue, i'm not trying to throw wood on the fire, but I hope that issues like this won't be what we can expect in the future. I do wish you the best with the ODES units , I personally would like to have one to demo, but if the backing on parts isn't atleast 80% I can't hang up on a customer that is standing in front of me . My shop is brick and morter and my customers have been loyal to me , and the least I can do is return the favor.
231 Motorsports LLC. (812)683-3606 Parts for your atv , no matter what brand it is ! Even if you can't pronounce it! Also the areas only Argo amphibious atv dealer
I welcome questions and would be happy to help with anything. I am very hands on and don't mind getting my hands dirty. You won't ever find me hiding behind someone.
As far as the truth hurts person, this person obviously signed up to do that one post, made a stupid name, and is obviously sore at something. We sold to over 30k people in the last 12 months, we are going have unhappy customers and even though we try to make EVERY customer happy, it's just not possible, some customers either don't want to be helped or there are special circumstances.
On the dealer internet sales. I wanted to just stop this completely, but if we get real for a second, we can all agree the product will end up on the net regardless. That is just a force you can't stop, you have so many outlets, excuses, loop-holes, etc. That is why we are highly regulating dealers, we are only allowing top quality dealers who we know will support the product and help it grow. We are allowing drop ships but there is no warranty and there is a high fee. Stocking dealers obviously have the better deal. We have our stuff trademarked and can shut down people who want to circumvent the system or break the rules. We are offering dealer radius protection of 20 miles. The online dealer thing is a hard thing to deal with, you have a set of people who will bitch one way and another set of people who will bitch the other way. Its VERY hard to make everyone happy so I'm trying to find the middle ground.
On the BMS stator, I called Wayne at Killer and asked him about the situation and he said that BMS ran out of stators and we do not have on in stock that will fit and he has one on order with BMS. I authorized him to order one from china and ship it straight to the customer via air freight. Hopefully we can get that ball rolling to get it taken care of. I'm always willing to go out of my way to help customers, I just let me know of the situation.
BMS didn't run out of stators, BMS doesn't stock any parts for the "Ranch Pony 500" I called Fion out on this when i needed and was missing parts for 1 of mine and she finally admitted they had to order all parts direct from china. Of course a complete lie when i signed up with them. Been in the business for 5 years now and have been through some tough times with the chinese products and situations like this happen with many distributors all the time to get people hooked. this is why i said i would personally come out to your facility for someone to show me you are going to be able to support the products we sell AND continue to support them years from now. To many chinese companies come and go, change their name or w/e they like to do. make a buck and amazingly there are no where to be found. not saying this is how you will run your business and i sure hope it isn't but you have to understand where all these dealers concerns are. with you telling us isn't proving anything.
They do have some parts in stock for those units, but as I said in a way earlier post, you can't survive doing warranty when you are only bringing the 2% free parts supplied for warranty from the factory. This is why we are paying for and bringing in a container of parts for every 10 containers ordered. Its the only way to run your parts dept and warranty dept.
I'm not one of his so called 30k customers (questionable) or even your competitor. It's not important who I am though, it's important that people know who this guy really is.
So tell us your story.
This cloak and dagger stuff is really not the way to tell us "who this guy really is"?
Please understand without some specifics your comments have very little credibility! If we make our decisions based upon your 2 posts we would not be acting in a very fair/smart way now would we?
But don't get me wrong we do want to know your information.
Last edited by Pro-Tech; 11-05-2011 at 09:42 AM.
I just realized I have been rude and nejlected to say.
Welcome to the forum Odes UTV and thank you for joining our happy bunch! OK maybe not always so happy but always a bunch!
We look forward to your comments and all the experience you would like to provide!
Last edited by Pro-Tech; 11-05-2011 at 09:40 AM.
Well let me 1st say I am one of Mike's 30k customers, but unfortunately an internet customer. I come to believe that the internet sales of these units is one of the major down falls of this industries. I will never again purchase a motorized vehicle over the net...but I will say I'm fortunate that I did purchase my unit from KMS. Mike and his guys know of me very well dating back to summer of 2009. For over one year my hisun 700 had repair needs with coolant in the oil. Not one time did they deny me warranty service and returned my calls promptly. They sent me small parts not covered under warranty without question. I saw all sevice bills and know over $2000 was paid to 2 differn't shops before my unit was replaced with a new one.
I completely agree with the dealers here regarding internet sales. No question that if I had a choice to purchase from a brick and motor shop or a less expensive internet store...hands down B & M!...I deeply regret not having a local shop (familiar with china products) to support me ....now more then ever...since I just found out afer 3 oil changes and 130 miles, my new 2011 hisun 700efi is showing coolant in the oil. I have no plans to look in to repairs or even tell my wife who really owns it...to much stress comes with that...I hope to continue to get the great support from this forum and the knowlegable guys here...they know who they are... to keep my utv rolling until it finally won't...then I'll look at making that repair.
My point...I believe if I purchased from a B & M shop, I would still have my 1st utv that would have been repaired properly....and not end up with my 5th Hisun UTV 2 years later and still have these problems.
Last edited by sangair; 11-05-2011 at 12:41 PM.
I would like to know who this guy is and why he is writing things like.... "people need to know who this guy is". I would like to think I'm a nice and fair person and treat everyone the way I want to be treated. So I'm blown away at that comment. Guess you can't be liked by everyone. Here Here to the haters.
Sangair, (K.F.) if you ever want to bring your unit to LA I'll let my ODES mechanic look at your unit for you and try to figure out what is going on and see if I can assist with it getting fixed. Those defective hisun heads are just a joke. I don't know how you got ALL of them. Lemme know. You know I'm always here.